Access 12's new data engine

re: Access 12's new data engine

MarkTwain — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 11:10:36 GMT

Runtime Version?

Will there be a distributable runtime file for Access 12 or will all users need a full versin of Access to runan app written in 12?

re: Access 12's new data engine

T. MacCabe — Sat, 20 May 2006 13:30:12 GMT

I only saw one person mention multi-user environments. I would like to hear that something has been done to reduce the impacts of slow networks and dropped connections. And to go with this, what about improving backend replication/recovery processes? I did like the comment on the need for better reporting tools, but all this needs to keep the non-server owners mind. Those who use Sharepoint, likely own and operate SQL Server, or at least MSDE. It means thay have more options, for what ever reason. Access has always been the tool of choice for those with limited options. A God send, and is the biggest reason I like (even love) Microsoft. High on my list as well are Excel, Sharepoint 2003, and Visual Studio.Net. It's the tug-o-war at Microsoft that keeps it evolving. Would you rather have Oracle Portal?

re: Access 12's new data engine

Dmitry Kornienko — Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:14:31 GMT

So the reason that Access doesn't use SQL Server engine or SES (JET Blue) is the need to maintain shared file access. Right. But network file sharing is so 1980s... There could be new database format, based on SQL Server Express engine or maybe WinFS, and a technology to automatically share such databases in server-side mode... And what about unifying query language semantics on a per-project basis, so moving to SQL Server is easier?

re: JET History

Ian Jose — Wed, 04 Jan 2006 20:40:34 GMT

Everywhere this article refers to Jet, it is refering to JET Red. JET Red was an ISAM originally developed by Microsoft for BC7, compiled basic. JET Blue was originally developed by Microsoft as a prospective upgrade for Access, but it was never used in this role. JET Red and JET Blue began sharing the common JET moniker in the Spring of 1990 when a query technology, QJET, was developed that would host on both Red and Blue. As others have noted, JET Blue went on to be used by Microsoft Exchange, Active Directory and many many other Windows services. JET Blue was a private API for many years, but became a published API in April of 2005 when three middle ware applications not covered by the Windows EULA chose it as their data store. Now anyone can use JET Blue. JET Red is a file sharing techonlogy with page level locking and best effort crash recovery. JET Blue on the other hand is designed to be embedded in a server application, does not share files, has write ahead logging for guaranteed crash recovery and has record level locking. JET Blue does not ship with a query engine but instead relies on applications to write their own queries as C++ ISAM code.

re: Access 12's new data engine

chris_n_osborne — Mon, 07 Nov 2005 07:02:58 GMT

>The SQL team is de-investing in Jet,

>and telling developers to code

>against SQL Server Express, but as

>it lacks the heterogeneous query

>functionality we needed, Access

>stuck with Jet. Then the answer is clear, JET should be transferred to the control of the Microsoft people working on MS Access. If the SQL Server folks won't take care of it, then the people who care about it should. >

>However, we needed to extend the Jet

>engine, so took a “private” copy of it, This makes absolutely no sense. None whatsoever. (Not the act, that is understandable. The part that doesn't make sense is that it was done at all instead of continuing on with what went before, but simply in the hands of the MS Access developers instead of the SQL Server developers.) Perhaps some high-powered management needs to say "do it" to get it done, but JET needs to move to a new house. >This means Access 12 no longer uses

>the system Jet engine, This makes even less sense. >but is tightly bound to its own

>version. Different versions of JET? What for? Microsoft should keep on doing what it has always done. Upgrading JET's functionality in exactly the way it has always done. "Private versions" and "extensions for Office" serve no purpose. There should only be one version. Updated and upgraded and modernized with new features and capabilities. If the SQL folks won't do it, it's time to turn over JET to those who are willing and able. >Developers can still program

>against the Access engine, but since

>it isn’t part of the system any more,

>application users will need Access on

>their machines. This is a big problem. This is really of no help or use that I can see. Departing from the model of the MS Access GUI + JET that has succeeded with so well to date is completely unnecessary and counterproductive. >Developers targeting users without

>Access can continue to use the

>Jet engine as they have for years or

>can move to SQL Server Express. The developer thus misses out on any of the potential benefits and features of an "upgrade", creating a situation where there might as well not have been an "upgrade" in the first place. >

>The primary feature we added to the

>new Access engine is support for

>“complex data”. Complex data really

>isn’t so complex – it is simply a join

>in relational terms, or a repeating

>region in XLM terms. [...] So, SharePoint data support is the primary feature that will be added? I have to admit, I have a lengthy list of things I'd like to see added to MS Access, and SharePoint support isn't on the list. (It's not that I think SharePoint support is bad, I just think there are many more high-priority things that need to be supported.) >

>Developers, of course, are quite

>comfortable doing this by hand and can

>choose to either continue as they have

>or to use the new functionality. For

>developers targeting SharePoint, it

>provides a mechanism for handling

>SharePoint’s complex data structures

>naturally. I am hoping that there are a *lot* of MS Access developers out there with *lots* of paying customers who want SharePoint support. (While simultaneously doubting it.) I am also hoping that everyone who formerly didn't need to own a copy of Office with Access in it, is now willing to purchase or upgrade to it in order to run new "Access Applications". (Though, again, I doubt it.) --------------------

re: Access 12's new data engine

RichB — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 11:59:32 GMT

Your description of JET sounds like a re-write of history. JET was originally part of Access (or FoxPro for the very early versions). It split into Jet Red and Jet Blue. Jet Blue was used for MSExchange and Active Directory and is shipped with Windows 2000 and later. It's now known as ESE. Jet Red was still shipped with Access. Whether some marketing wonk considered it part of Windows or not is similar to how msvbvm50.dll was shipped with Windows. All throughout it's history, Jet Red has been freely distributable. Many many many VB apps were shipped with Jet Red. Now there seems to be some politicizing and backstabbing going on within Microsoft - why should the Access team need to take a "private" copy when they own Jet Red. Are there some internal fights going on? Will this now be called Jet Green? Why won't Jet Green be freely distributable? Do Microsoft listen to customers? Are Microsoft deaf?

re: Access 12's new data engine

TC — Sun, 23 Oct 2005 04:29:05 GMT

Steve, that's how I undertood it. The old one (Jet) is not enhanced, the new one (now called ADE, Access Data Engine) is, and you can code to either one. But I still don't know why ADE will only come bundled with Access.

re: Access 12's new data engine

Steve — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 21:50:48 GMT

I don't understand why MS would make these changes to the JET Engine, but not add it as a seperate componant.

Does this mean that JET that comes with Windows will be staying static from now on with Access having it's own engine? (Where we can develop against in either old Windows JET or new Access JET?)

re: Access 12's new data engine

PatriotB — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 02:58:08 GMT

Bob Archer-- Access is Jet Red. Outlook Express will be using Jet Blue, aka the "Extensible Storage Engine" (ESE, aka Exchange Storage Engine). See msdn.microsoft.com/.../portal.asp for details.

re: Access 12's new data engine

TC — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 06:49:31 GMT

Kawigi wrote:

> TC: Access just comes with a modified version

> of Jet with new features ... If you use those

> new features [you] need the new version of

> Access (with the modified version of Jet) Sure; but that that doesn't answer my question. My question was: why won't MS supply the new version of Jet[1], seperately to the new version of Access[2]? Is that a technical decision, due to [1] being bound more-tightly into [2], or is it a non-technical decision, ie. a marketing one?