Runtime deployment questions

Thanks Vladimir Albert Kallal: The ability to use free SharePoint allows my applications to become multi-user over the internet in different locations without having to setup a server. This sharepoint is an amazing new feature that opens up a lot of doors for me as a developer. Albert is not you starting to make this post way off topic- by injecting sharepoint? Our issue here is painless deployment of access runtime. ALBERT is Sharepoint a Relational DBMS? or just a storage? like yahoo mail? ---performance issues with SharePoint Lists that have over 2000 rows. Unfortunately, so far SharePoint's List features have not been robust enough to develop true database applications. Fundamental features that application developers have come to expect in a relational database management system have been absent so far in SharePoint Lists due to a layer of architecture between SharePoint Lists and the underlying DBMS

Let's face it Access 2007 makes it "appear" easier to use to the users. It gets in the way of long term developers and their existing applications. Sharepoint is part of the non-relational dumbing down that Access and its complex data type support. Access 2003 is the "last" pro version at the moment.

craig please clarify this>>Access 2003 is the "last" pro version at the moment.

Well by pro I mean the last one capable of industry standard interface and the last one without an advert on the runtime. All versions prior to 2007 were CUA compliant and by using the runtime you could completely disguise the Access origins. And by at the moment I mean until a version is released that allows at least CUA compliance by suppressing the ribbon and restoring the menus. I can live with the tagline on the runtime "powered by Microsoft Access" on most applications but not all.

Remember CUA Compliance? Microsoft Doesn't:

www.sdtimes.com/.../article.aspx

Hey, before this tome gets closed (a week is too short) will someone in the know please deal with my repeated request about the recent ribbon thread app by Sage? Is it outlook, or Access, and if Access, what controls are used? The old treeview? What's the outlook style nav panel?

The major problem with Access for devs is that the Access team works for Microsoft...and Microsoft as huge company with many offerings does not regard Access as a legit dev tool; never has beyond maybe the early days of Access. Imagine if Access was owned by a distinct firm that continued the excellent start. Instead it's been laying fallow. Gunderloy dropped Access because it was boring and going nowhere, moved to .net. A year or more ago he dropped Microsoft completely and moved to rails...because as a dev he got fed up with MS' approach. Getz and the rest just got bored with Access and obviously the action was elsewhere. Access has been left out of the stream for like ten years...but as we know it's still a great productivity solution, for some projects, at least through A2003.

Thanks Craig. Zup, I second emotion. I have also Flex and DBACentral Builder 2 in my arsenal if in case. Ya, that's very true. If access was given true attention, surely only a dozen embraces .net, because 95 percent of the softdev are datacentric.

zup said on July 11, 2008 10:49 AM: ... Yes, it seems to a treeview control. I was playing some games with TW control in VB6 a while ago and it's not very easy to use. But it can make some ideas much simpler to implement.

>performance issues with SharePoint Lists that have over 2000 rows. Actually, I am testing a form right now with 60,000 rows, and the response time to bring up one record is well under one second. I find the speed/response time identical in this case as a linked table to sql server. And, I testing this on a wireless connection. Remember, the SharePoint lists are based on sql server engine behind the scenes anyway. Furthermore lists in a2007 use replication to achieve their performance. So, the whole table is local cached, and ONLY updates to records shuffle back and forth. It works very well. (and, with Intermittent connections that are flaky it works BETTER then linked talbes to sql server). Furthermore you can even allow users to go “off line” and when they get back to a internet connection, then replication occurs. This is quite amazing since you not need to setup replication or even know how it works!! I am not suggesting that SharePoint lists are going to be suitable for large scale data processing or large tables. However for the vast majority of my business applications, the speed and capacity of the SharePoint lists are more then adequate for most of my applications. >Albert is not you starting to make this post way off topic- by injecting sharepoint Atually you suggested MySql here. And you suggested Postgres. I was responding to that post. Now likely you brought up MySql etc because I brought up SharePoint. I had originally mentioned SharePoint because some here were saying that there is no new features in a2007. I totally disagreed and thus pointed out that SharePoint is a really nice feature that is opening doors for my applications as a developer. If you going to play the on/off topic back at me then try better to apply it to yourself. Albert D. Kallal

Edmonton, Alberta Canada

>Me and my clients are very happy with thinstall deployment strategy Just out of curiosity, what was the business model do you have to justify the expense of thinstall? Do you have a very high priced product and low volume sales, or do have a very low priced product and you make up the cost on volume? Do you have a demo of your product using Thinstall for us to see? Albert D. Kallal

Edmonton Alberta Canada

Albert; "If you really want thinstall solution then there are so many ways or ideas. But If you dont want, then there are also many reasons". Since canada is enjoying a very high economy due to sand oil, I don't believe you and your clients cant afford to buy thinstall. You can download thinstall and create it for yourself. You can do that because you are smart. I will upload sample video/demo sooner in msaccesshintsandtips.ning.com. Watch it my friend.

Well, it been more then a year since I looked at thinstall. You had mentioned that costs have come down for this software So, I was just curious as to how by how much. I don’t understand what you mean by “then there are so many ways or ideas”. I am just simply asking if your justification for thinstall is a very high priced software package (but low volume), or are you selling a low cost product using thinstall (but with high volume). Either type of business model can justify the high cost of thinstall. I guess I not spend the time to look at the current costs for thinstall and was just wondering if there is some kind of deal for “per license” or some type of volume pricing that would make it an affordable solution as opposed to a one time high cost? I assumed you suggested thinstall because it been well worth it for you (otherwise, I not understanding your point here). I am just not knowledgeable about it’s current pricing. Would you purchase thinstall again, or would you have considered something like Sagekey, or a if the PW from Microsoft was better? Perhaps it was just that “single” .exe feature that sold you? (since sagekey, or the PW do nothing close to that feature). In other words, why improve the PW from microsoft if people will not use it anyway? Albert D. Kallal

Edmonton Alberta Canada

We have small volume but big and fat clients willing to spend. They are not after of half cooked solution. They really want cost effective and for them thinstall is the answer! We do big customized projects using most ms access as a frontEnd. We can't argue here, ms access is the KING RAD for DB frontends. We even push jet to 20 users University enrollment system with almost 3000 students and for almost 4 years.No problema Amego! Why don't you visit www.thinstall.com, There is a complete data you can see regarding pricing and other distribution issues. virtualization is the future! wouldn't it be nice to see, that your finish ms access app is running in Virtual World without any conflicts and very easy for the client/users to install? A.K.A Cut&Paste! and so many other benefits. Go to thinstall NOW!

That sounds really interesting Erwin. (so, lower volume, but higher cost…thanks for that answer, that exactly what I was asking about). So, your goal is simply deployments with a min of fuss, and you can justify the higher costs. Not all of us are in that position. And, yes, I am going to check out their web site and see what their pricing is these days, perhaps they come down as you mentioned. Albert D. Kallal

Edmonton, Alberta Canada